A Milk Run
Feb 14, 2022 LA

Bobby Joe Smith III: Every excellent interview has a particular gimmick of some sort or some setting. It's between two friends, or done during a car ride or something that you know, so this one, what I've envisioned, is called milk run. And the interview length is however long it takes me to walk to buy milk. And I'm hoping it will be generative because I bought some cookies, and of course, I need some milk to go with them.
TC Zhou: Is it a kind of framing device?
Bobby Joe Smith III: (laughs) Exactly! First of all, first question. How are you doing today?
TC Zhou: I need more time to sleep. Is Valentine's Day today?
Bobby Joe Smith III: (laugh) Is that generative for your work, being Valentine's Day?
TC Zhou: Valentine's Day complicates everything. It makes me more troubled by heart, and it's not very productive.
Bobby Joe Smith III: I thought that's how the best artwork is made.
TC Zhou: You have to be an excellent person to be an artist. Then, you can express yourself without worrying, and you can express every trouble you have without worrying much.
Bobby Joe Smith III: Absolutely. (laugh)
TC Zhou: Oh! Are you still there? It almost makes you into a profile picture.
Bobby Joe Smith III: Oh really? Hopefully, I got my good side.

Exhaustion
Bobby Joe Smith III: Well, how was your experience? You were the first one to do the solo show in our group. And you started with a bang. It was a great show, and I'd love to hear about your experience. Tell me a little bit more about the pieces that you made. And a little bit about your process for creating.
TC Zhou: Tuesday was the show. Early in the morning, I was still finishing the two animations for the show.
On Monday night, I ran out of vinyl. The second day is the show, and even if I order on Amazon, I won't have enough time to get the vinyl. Then there is another maker space at UCLA, but they don't have the color I want. It was very stressful. I ended up reusing some of the vinyl that I made some wrong cuts on. It's a complicated process.
I was exhausted. Doors locked after hours, so walking from the exhibition space on the first floor to the fabrication lab on the second floor required going through the third floor. Sometimes, I needed to remember scissors, and sometimes, I forgot some tools. It would help if you repeated this long journey again and again to get some items.
I was so tired, extremely tired, exhausted. Exhaustion is where I was before the show. Every day, I slept a few hours to make it happen.
Bobby Joe Smith III: That's tough, but some of the more creative elements kind of come out of it. You created the typeface because you didn't poke out all the apertures in the vinyl characters. It became its own thing. It became a nice feature.
TC Zhou: I was so tired that I thought I could live with leaving the apertures in the font, which is evidence of how exhausted I was.
Bobby Joe Smith III: (Laugh) I get it. You're ensuring you know everything that goes into a show because you must do everything.

Parents
Bobby Joe Smith III: Have you told your family at all? How have you tried to describe your work to your parents?
TC Zhou: No. I did not talk to them about the show. My parents are not my target audience. The show depends on the culture of LA. It's aimed at the local audience.
Bobby Joe Smith III: Are they an audience that you want to communicate to at some point? Does it bother you that they don't know it or are not accessible to them somehow, or are you OK with my family being in one area and my artwork being in another?
TC Zhou: One day, they will learn about my work from some media outlet. That's how I imagine how they will know.

References
Bobby Joe Smith III: Can you describe the references and general language you're using for your artwork?
TC Zhou: Net.art influenced my thinking. I made my artwork freely available on the net.
There is a performance piece in the show. It is the result of thinking about humor and inclusive masculinity.
Bobby Joe Smith III: Can you say that again? Inclusive masculinity?
TC Zhou: Yes. A younger generation of men is not afraid of being seen as gay or feminine. For example, they wear pink soccer shoes, and their peers are OK with that. Adi Adam wrote an article about inclusive masculinity. It's cool.
Bobby Joe Smith III: That's broadening what has been considered masculine or allowing for a more excellent expression of masculinity. Is that how you may talk about it?
TC Zhou: Yes. The performance piece is also about vulnerability. I enjoyed making it a lot. In it, I talk about my various uncomfortable frictions with the culture.

Whining
Bobby Joe Smith III: Why do you enjoy it?
TC Zhou: At least I can talk about it. It's relieving to talk about things that make me uncomfortable. After talking about it, I feel more comfortable.
It's whining, and it feels like whining about being alone. It's also grabbing your attention, and it's enjoyable to be paid attention to.
Bobby Joe Smith III: (laugh) So your entire practice is all about a big cry for attention. (laugh)
TC Zhou: It's grabbing attention indeed. (laugh) Through humor, you grab favorable attention. To be lovely. To be favorable. It's a fun process. It's also communicating something hard to communicate. It does the job of connecting and using the opportunity to connect with others.

Generative
Bobby Joe Smith III: What is more generative for you? Your sexuality or gayness or loneliness?
TC Zhou: I am still alone and crave the kind of love I want. It's something that I'm missing. If I don't have a cat, then I whine about wanting a cat. If I don't have a partner, then I whine about wanting a partner.
Because of this lack and the desire to have, because of the missing of some fundamental, everyone needs some kind of companion in life. The absence of something essential in life causes me a huge amount of pain, and the pain just prompts me to seek the needed thing.
It is generative but far from being in a super happy state. It's a state that will compel me to generate artwork, but it is not a perfectly happy state.

Sunshine
Bobby Joe Smith III: What's interesting is that you talk about the narrow audience you feel your work connects with. But you're talking about themes that many people can connect with.
Particularly during quarantine or a pandemic, people may feel isolated or feel like their love life has been put on pause because they were unable to meet people in person. A lot of people have felt lonely.
Given the themes of your show, can a more general audience?
Bobby Joe Smith III: Keep going back to this idea of your family. I am projecting because I often have trouble explaining what I do to my family. Have you ever talked to them about the themes of your work? Is there a space for them to connect with what you're doing?
TC Zhou: I don't mind telling them, but they probably care more about whether I can afford to buy a house.
Bobby Joe Smith III: (laugh) I can see why they're focused might be housing, but you're thinking about who you fill that space with.
Bobby Joe Smith III: Your parents care for you. They are concerned about how you will pay for housing one day and how you will get a place to live. You're concerned with who will be in that space. Whether it's a cat or another person, your primary concern is who I fill that space with.
TC Zhou: Right. I'm also concerned about how long I can go on like this. I don't know how long this lonely period of life will last. On the one hand, I'm used to living alone. On the other hand, it is so unfulfilling emotionally, even though it was somewhat creatively and intellectually fulfilling. The loneliness replaces the kind of warmth you had when you were young.
I was in a relationship for a few months. You have a company. You have someone to talk to. It was a warmer life instead of this frigid life.
Bobby Joe Smith III: You mentioned the analogy today. We're talking about being in a relationship as the feeling of stepping out into the sun. Something similar to that.
TC Zhou: Yeah. It's like living under the sun when you are in an OK relationship. You feel warm. Now it's like living in coldness.
Bobby Joe Smith III: Even though you're in sunny LA. (laugh)
TC Zhou: Right. But the sun makes you feel like you have a bit of love.

喔...天蒼蒼地茫茫你是我永恆的陽光

Opacity
Bobby Joe Smith III: Another fascinating thread was about your feeling that you lack the vocabulary or the words to express yourself in your first language or even with your family.
TC Zhou: I think there are good Chinese queer cultural works, such as queer films Happy Together and Lan Yu. However, there are few. I hope that there are more good ones. I wish I could create some of them.
I don't know if you feel that way when making your art, but my art practice makes me feel stressed. Sometimes, I don't want to reveal myself too much.
Bobby Joe Smith III: How would you feel if you weren't open?
TC Zhou: Then you will feel that you have left many things unsaid. But if you have a partner, you can talk to your partner. (laugh) Not having a partner motivates you to speak more because when you have nobody to talk to, you must speak to the whole world.
When you don't have a partner, you don't have anyone to talk to about your everyday life, little things, troubles, or happiness. When you don't have anyone to talk to, you make art.
Bobby Joe Smith III: I'll finish this with our framing device. I've gotten milk. I made it back. What type of effect would you want your art to have on your life in some way?
TC Zhou: I hope my art will keep me intellectually and creatively alive.